additives

Discussion in 'Track Talk' started by bobbymac, Nov 10, 2021.

  1. SRT-Tom

    SRT-Tom Well-Known Member Super Moderator Article Writer

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    Yes. Carbon build-up can cause an increase in an engine's compression ratio. This is not a good thing.

    As an engine operates, carbon deposits may form in places such as the valves, ports, pistons, head gasket and piston rings. This carbon can interfere with normal combustion is several ways. It can alter the engines operating temperature, compression ratio, and several other important factors involved with combustion and sensor readings.

    The carbon build-up decreases the amount of space that is available in the combustion chamber. This increases the compression, which can cause the engine to overheat, ping (detonate), and also causes an increase in NOX emissions. Due to the fact that the carbon can retain oxygen from the combustion process, it can cause another interesting effect that can cause the vehicle to either trigger a light or fail an emissions test.

    It should also be recognized that if the carbon buildup is on the piston rings or ring grooves, it can prevent the rings from sealing properly, creating the opposite effect- low compression.

    Despite cleaning additives in Top Tier gasolines, chemical decarbonization is a good preventative maintenance procedure for engines having more than 35,000 miles. It involves running a chemical compound, along with the fuel, through the engine to breakdown any carbon deposits. They then get flushed out along with the exhaust gases. There are a couple of ways in which this is done. One way is to add the chemical along with some fuel in a separate unit that is connected to the fuel intake line on the car. The engine is started and the car is allowed to run for 15-20 minutes or until the mixture is fully utilized. This applies to both gasoline and diesel engines. This method of decarbonizing the engine is preventive maintenance. It will prevent carbon build up in the engine and keep it clean, increasing its life.

    For engines that have severe carbon build-up, a chemical decarbonization won’t be as effective. In this case, one will need to do a physical decarbonization procedure. This involves a time-consuming and costly procedure that involves opening up the cylinder head, removing the intake and exhaust valves and physically “scrapping” the carbon deposits off the valves, cylinder head and manifolds. The exhaust pipe will also need to be dismantled and cleaned thoroughly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  2. bobbymac

    bobbymac Member

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    Just spent an hour looking around for dodge scat pack system problems using VP in the gas... If you have the time show me where these so called system problems are using VP in the gas?????
    My business not yours - Put a QT can of VP in the gas tank and have the 392 engine dyno tuned. Bet that 392 does over 500 HP....
    I am 77. A street racer before track.. First factory hot rod was a new 396 ELCO with a four speed and 4.11 posi... If I remember right it turned the 1/8 mile in the high 8's. Not too shabby...
    Stick with your 91 octane if thats what does it... I love this 21 - 1320. Dodge did a good job making a street rod out of it.... bobbymac
    You know your shit Tom.... I really do not worry about carbonization these days... Have pulled a half a doz heads off of cars with 60--- 120K miles on them in my life... including two bikes... Really didn't mean it makes a big deal with low mileage... Have a 2013 Ram with 9K on it... I don't get around much since retired 11 years ago but I love my vehicles....
    Will keep your schooling in my head - I thank you.
    Never meant carbon build up on a piston was a good thing.. Just meant some time to increase the octane in an older car- it might run better??? .
     
  3. Cloverdale

    Cloverdale Full Access Member

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    Octanium
    • Blend of Aliphatic and Aromatic Hydrocarbons
    • MMT
    • Tetraethyl plumb
    Livernois Motorsports said:
    In our experiences, octane booster is bad news typically, I'd definitely steer clear of that especially in these newer vehicles. Many of the most common boosters contain MMT which will leave a manganese oxide coating on everything that comes into contact with the exhaust. Many car companies including Ford advise against using anything that contains MMT right in the owners manuals because it can damage emissions equipment as well. If a vehicle comes in for performance modifications and dyno tuning with octane booster in the tank we normally drain the fuel and put in new spark plugs before running it on the dyno.
    This just confirms what we already know, octane boosters will turn plugs and O2s orange with deposits.

    Third in the list of Madditives is the company’s Octanium octane booster, which is capable of improving your current fuel’s octane rating by up to eight points. Rugg explains that the Octane Booster works better with lower-grade fuels; using it with 87 octane fuel will give the most gain, while adding it to 93 octane fuel will give less gain, but still an improvement. Octanium is designed for offroad vehicles, and can cause issues with oxygen sensors and catalytic converters; Rugg cautions against its use in those vehicles so equipped.

    DON’T USE VP OCTANIUM!

    [​IMG]
    Live in NJ so we cant pump our own gas and lady put 85 instead of 93 in my car. Went to auto-zone and got the VP octane booster to level my octane out. Week and a half later my spark plugs are completely shot. Ive herd other people have this exact problem with octane boosters. Don’t know anything about boostane but VP is definitely a no go for our cars.

    Ahhh o2 sensor damage and residue on the plugs? I added a bottle of vp octanium booster to my car last week and filled up with 93. Car ran amazing. I have jb4, vrsf *** l e s s ***, and 2ndary delete with vibrant 1792s. Car sounded nasty and pulled like crazy. Loved the sound and feel. After tank was low i refilled with just 93 and maybe a 1/4 into the new gas, ses light and jb4 kept kicking me to map 4. As soon as i stepped on the throttle heavy, boost would jump up to 14 for a couple seconds and again back to map 4 and 8psi. Codes read cyl 4 misfire, lambda probe, etc. So i changed cyl 4 coil and checked plugs. Plugs have a redish/ rusty color on them and they were just installed 2 months ago. Car started misfiring and missing very bad. Did a log and it turns out that bank 2 pre c a t o2 sensor is bad and causing car to run lean in bank 2 thats why it goes to map 4. O2 sensor ordered and hopefully fixes misfire and boost problems
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 at 2:14 AM
  4. SRT-Tom

    SRT-Tom Well-Known Member Super Moderator Article Writer

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    With our Hemis, replacing 16 spark plugs is an expensive and time consuming job. Something you don't want to do prematurely.
     
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  5. bobbymac

    bobbymac Member

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    OK I thank you all, I am convinced. Just for the record - I have not used any additive in my 21 1320 challenger scat,,,,
    Must add - I have read the writing on the can bottle of VP oct. "UNLEADED". "Safe with cat convert and 02 Sensors... See nothing about "OFF RODE USE ONLY." Are these manufacturers of additives all a bunch of f'n lies?? No disrespect guys I will not add VP until I get some more input...

    I have built more then one hot rod motor in my 77 years.. If a almost 392 cu in 500 HP factory motor is not a worked motor? What is it???? I built a 460 Lincoln motor with a Boss 302 valve train and factory cam for so called semi solid lifters... Put it in a 73 stang notch back... 3600 pounds with gas and not me in it...
    Steering got loose when it hit 2nd gear - I am sure you know what that means.

    Not using VP unleaded till I have more info on it No diss guys but I had 3 years in the military -- got out at !9 - Out just in time for some bad ass cars muscle cars when you went to Sonoco for 100 octane gas... Bobby mac....
     
  6. bobbymac

    bobbymac Member

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    Sorry tom but I would be surprised to find 16 plugs in my 392 Hemi... Had a viper ram with a beautiful V10 hemi that didn't have 20 plugs.... What engine are you talking about. A jap race car?????
     
  7. bobbymac

    bobbymac Member

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    For all you downers on VP. Its sold at most race tracks in boo coo octane.... Called the VP company. -- was told to fallow the directions...Were not sure if a 1320 has a ECD --- Told to stick to the directions. 5.2 ounces per 20 gallons in a new 392 scat... Good enough for me... Will let you all know if it works... bobbymac
     
  8. SRT-Tom

    SRT-Tom Well-Known Member Super Moderator Article Writer

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    Modern Hemi engines, like the old 426 Hemi have 16 spark plugs.

    I found a very good explanation, on allpar, as to why our Hemi engines have 16 spark plugs. Here it is:

    "Each cylinder has an ignition coil pack over one spark plug, and a regular plug wire connected to the other spark plug. Further, the coil pack also has a plug wire attached to it that extends to the opposite cylinder bank. Each cylinder shares a coil pack with another cylinder. Each of the two plugs on a given cylinder is fired by a separate coil. One plug has a coil directly attached, and the other is fired via an ignition wire connected to a coil located on another cylinder on the opposite bank. The extra plug fires during the power stroke to more fully burn the hydrocarbons. The second ignition allows additional power in the down stroke while lowering the need for restrictive catalyst plates in the converter.

    In the 1980s Japanese manufacturers reduced unburned hydrocarbons by placing spark plugs either in the exhaust pipe (which fired with every piston ignition) or in the exhaust manifold (which fired each time their corresponding cylinder fired). Chrysler morphed this idea to include dual fired plugs on each cylinder, which allows the firing to take place closer to top dead center, and then again when the piston is on the back side of the power stroke. This also reduces NOx and ozone. Full combustion results in heat, water, and carbon dioxide. NOx emissions are only significant during incomplete or partial combustion, due to the lack of available oxygen, high temperatures, and various chemical reactions. That's why catalytic converters have been standard on cars for the past 3 decades. The extra set of spark plugs on the HEMI, and on previous engines, are designed to reduce emissions before a catalyst is needed. They add some horsepower, but not very much."
     
  9. Cloverdale

    Cloverdale Full Access Member

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    You're in for a surprise then 'street racer'!
     
  10. Cloverdale

    Cloverdale Full Access Member

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    The original oem hemi's (354, 392, 426) had one plug per cylinder. Dual and three plug heads were developed for top fuel applications.