Demon 170 vs. Twin Turbo Scat Pack

PS 64mm turbos are quick-spooling, I would guess. What surprises me is that 64mm turbos are used on Hellcats, also, even with the blower still in place. "Hellion twin turbo kit."

People are not finding the potential of the car with those pinhole turbos. They need larger turbos, of something of a higher quality brand, as I suspect these are something inexpensive such as Precision or the various Brand X "my daddy bought me a turbo store" types.

However, I guess I will slog through the video and see what brand they are. Ah, the Hellion.

I am guessing also that the idea was to save money on the build and not have to go whole hog on building a turbo car that would beat a Demon, but instead to garner clicks, likes, and other forms of Bread and Circuses to keep the drooling masses glued to the screen.

I quote from Hellion's page:
"Hellion has designed a line of powerful small frame turbochargers from the ground up"
Is that right? A turbo kit company that has been in existence for 32 months has designed every single part of the turbos from the ground up?

Are they sure they did not invent turbocharging? The wheel? Air?

Translation: some cheap Alibaba turbos with a housing cheaply sand cast in Harbin or somewhere even cheaper.

To put this in perspective, I saw a kit for a Dodge Demon. Around 11,000 dollars, when top-of-the-line turbos (ones that are actually efficient and don't take a half hour to spool) cost around 4000 dollars, each.

Knowing how business owners are, I am thinking they spent 100 bucks apiece on the turbos from Guangdong or some slum near Beijing, so about 9000 dollars of that kit price is profit.

Correction: 5000 is profit, and 4000 is spent on social media.

Hence why a twin-turbo 6.9 liter car can't beat a Dodge Demon.

You guys may be lazy, and you may be rich, but as you tried to tell your best friend when he was marrying some blown out old floozie, do some research.

Turbos, like anything in life, are priced according to their actual quality and durability. It's why business owners choose Precision, and all the plethora of Brand X turbos out there. They get FREE turbos from their current "sponsor" to bray about how good they are.

But, do your own research, read some compressor maps, and look at the efficiency curves of the exhaust turbines. You may be shocked with shocking shockedness to find the Brand X(i Xinping) turbos are too ashamed of their turbos to provide a single shred of actual proven evidence.

Other, better, companies will have detailed data available for their turbochargers, and even then, you have to do some reading and find out if that company may be prone to flat-out exaggeration.

Meanwhile, if you want to fool some old-school turbo guys, you can get a custom compressor wheel made of carved billet titanium to increase the safe boost pressure of the turbo to a higher level, while retaining a somewhat stealthy appearance. Nothing like being able to hit 5 bar of boost with a turbo normally rated for 3.5 bar.

 

I was really hoping the Scat Pack would win, but given the car involved, I am not surprised that it did not.

Larger turbos spool more slowly, granted, than identical-design turbos of a smaller size, but that is why we have the ability to shift gears. The F1 cars of the early turbo era had a fairly narrow power band that you needed to stay in through accurate shifting.

As Dario Benuzzi, test driver for Ferrari, said about the F40: "we could have gotten more power but then the power would have come in with a bang at certain revs."

In drag racing, Heck, with enough gears, you can have a power band that is needle-sharp. Surely concentrating on shifting for ten seconds can be done.

 

They seem to be somewhat larger than 64mm.

I know Precision turbos are popular with a bunch of racers. They do the job, no doubt.

But I still consider them to be marketing-driven stuff, light on actual data provided.

https://www.precisionturbo.com/sponsorship

I know companies may have some secret squirrel reasons for never ever publishing compressor maps or turbine maps.

I would like to see the various companies compete directly in a head-to-head ccompetition for boost, spool-up time, reliability, overall power parasitism, etc, but, that is not likely to happen unless someone with a fat wallet steps up to do it.

For now, I am more of the "just 'cuz everyone's using it doesn't make it good" mentality. I prefer hard data provided to me in great detail before a purchase. Many things you don't find out by looking at marketing hype.

Surprisingly for some, even price is no firm indicator of quality. I used to think so, but, higher price to finance their overhyped media image (like Precision) is no longer any indication to me.

However, 400 bucks for a similar size and shape turbo? (and named a lot like the competitor it is imitating, because you can't copyright numbers which Intel found out about the 486 processor among the plethora of competitors also naming their chips 486's, at which point they switched to Pentium, a copyright-able name)

hmm. Garrett G40 or a HongKong special G40 that costs 1/5 as much. Whichever would be the best one?

Some companies thrive on hype. They even """sponsor""" certain forums to make sure anyone noting the inferiority of their product, or challenging the validity of their obviously biased statements of their results is silenced one way or another.

Fortunately, unlike Low Jackass Performance, on other forums, Precision has no presence in this forum

 

I wonder what the specs are. it looks to be at least 4" across the inducer of the compressor wheel. Those are some pretty big turbos.

This turbo looks like it if 4" across the outside of the entire turboT6766


Not a single chance they are using a 67mm turbo, unless they have one strapped to each cylinder's exhaust port.

In theory, one could make more power in a narrower powerband with more efficiency by using an even larger turbocharger, but the danger of that is ever falling off the bottom of the boost curve during a race if one had to backpedal, I reckon.

Funny to see people theorize on the 'net what he is actually going with his motors. nitrous on launch to help spool it up, nitromethane, Viagra, Cialis, whatever it is they are theorizing he is doing.

What is also funny is him saying "I spent about 10 grand to build the engine."

LOL I have sourced connecting rods that cost that much.

 

I like the fact that you can purchase a 2015 challenger Scat Pack today if you don't already own one for around 25 to 35 thousand and spend maybe 11to 15 thousand to make over 1000 hp. What I like about this is you could end up with a car with that kind of hp conceivably for around 40-k compared to a Demon 170 for 250-k or more if you were lucky enough to get one. I thought it was great in the video of the drag race that the Scat Pack stayed right with the Demon 170 up to a point and didn't lose by much at all.

 

The TT Scat pack will win when the Demon 170 grenades, Seems to be pretty common, RacerX blew his, and TK said a few have grenaded due to oil problems.